Dirty Chain Podcast Episode 33: Ian Boswell - Former World Tour Pro Cyclist

Ian Boswell joins the Midpack to talk about his transition from professional World Tour cycling to gravel racing, joining the workforce as a Wahoo Fitness employee, and his favorite Vermont-based snacks.

 Sheldon Little:

We're all over the place.

Trevor Gibney:

A little bit of bike racing, a little bit of drinks and beers, mustaches. Shall we get to our main segment of the podcast?

Sheldon Little:

Poor Ian's led up with all of that. He's probably going to listen to this episode and be like, "These assholes."

Trevor Gibney:

Ian Boswell. I started following Ian while he was racing, I think, for Katusha during the Tour de France. He raced for Team Sky, which was the biggest-

Sheldon Little:

The name in grand tours.

Trevor Gibney:

Yeah. An American rider from Oregon, and now he is in Vermont. And so he himself has a podcast right now, currently, called Breakfast with Boz. It's fantastic. It's great. He talks to all sorts of different people in the cycling industry, but he also talks about what he's having for breakfast, and what's it's like living on the farm that they live in in Vermont. He's just a real down-to-earth guy.

Sheldon Little:

Getting rid of groundhogs.

Trevor Gibney:

Getting rid of groundhogs. So, I thought, man, it'd be great to talk to him, not so much about the World Tour but what he's doing with cycling and bikes, and just the whole cycling culture now and how he's a part of it and how he's supporting it, and how he sees-

Sheldon Little:

Adapting with 2020.

Trevor Gibney:

Sure. Yeah, absolutely. So, why don't we just get right in now to our conversation with Ian Boswell?

Trevor Gibney:

Hello?

Ian Boswell:

Hey, how's it going?

Trevor Gibney:

Going well. How're you?

Ian Boswell:

Doing well. Yeah, sorry I'm a little bit late. We had a groundhog, woodchuck that needed to be dealt with.

Trevor Gibney:

I mean, you're literally three minutes late, so that's not really late in my opinion.

Ian Boswell:

Well, yeah, I guess I host a podcast with myself and I always appreciate it when people are at least on time. So, I apologize.

Trevor Gibney:

I appreciate that. The groundhog situation sounds like what I would expect from you just following you a little bit.

Ian Boswell:

Yeah, my wife has been eagerly trying to catch this groundhog all spring because it's been digging into our garden. Yeah, finally we caught it. I'll tell you, it's nice and plump from all the garden vegetables.

Trevor Gibney:

What is it going after specifically? Is it everything?

Ian Boswell:

Yep, I mean, especially when we first started planting stuff in the spring, it was digging and eating all the seeds and whatnot that we had planted. Eating all the lettuce and kale and all the leafy greens.

Trevor Gibney:

I mean, we're in Michigan so we have a lot of groundhogs as well, but you guys are in Vermont? Correct?

Ian Boswell:

Yep. Yep, up in the northeast corner of Vermont.

Trevor Gibney:

Okay. I guess maybe with the groundhog conversation, I do want to ... Maybe we'll start with ... I want to talk a little bit about breakfast.

Ian Boswell:

Yes.

Trevor Gibney:

You have your own podcast, and it's called Breakfast with Boz. Your last name is Boswell, there is The Boz there.

Ian Boswell:

Yes.

Trevor Gibney:

But I know that the Breakfast with Boz started ... You were having conversations with people while you were on the Tour de France, but now in your podcast you have some specific like, "Here's what I'm having for breakfast, here's a recipe," which is a very cool element to your new podcast. Maybe to start this off, what is your favorite breakfast, your go to breakfast or your favorite breakfast? Maybe those are two different things, but-

Ian Boswell:

Favorite breakfast? That's hard to say. I mean it changes daily. Sometimes I wake up and I want something sweet, and there's other days when I wake up and I just want like a savory omelet on a piece of toast. But yeah, like you said, the initial idea of keeping that name, Breakfast with Boz came from a podcast I was doing in the 2018 tour. Yeah, I started the podcast, but kind of relaunched the podcast this year as part of my role with Wahoo.

Ian Boswell:

Yeah, at first we were supposed to do, I think, just like 12, 15 episodes throughout the course of the year, kind of like documenting all the races and different events. And then all of a sudden COVID happened and the podcast turned into a weekly series. And then all of a sudden I realized, "Oh wow, that's a lot of breakfasts to try and show recipes for." Yeah, it also keeps me creative. It keeps my wife and I, we do a lot of cooking, so it definitely keeps us thinking of new recipes, obviously one breakfast a week is a lot different than if I was hosting a cooking show and have to do a breakfast a day.

Ian Boswell:

But yeah, favorite breakfast? I mean, the other day I just had a bowl of oatmeal with some peanut butter and maple syrup. It's so simple. Even, I guess, some listeners may know this but ... So, there's oat groats which is like the whole oat grain, which is ... Steel-cut oats are oat groats, like cut up, but if you cook oat groats overnight in a rice cooker or a crock pot, it changes what you think oatmeal is. It's so much creamier and thicker, and it's nutty.

Ian Boswell:

So, if you can find oat groats at maybe a whole foods store or a place that sells bulk grains, cook that overnight with just even some water, some salt and cinnamon, and then pile on your favorite toppings to oatmeal. It changes oatmeal, especially when you get down to a lot of people their thought of oatmeal is like quicker instant oatmeal. You eat that it's like, "This is junk compared to oat groats." That's been cut and then flattened and then pressed and then heated, and then-

Trevor Gibney:

Right.

Ian Boswell:

So, it cooks in a minute. Oat groats take a good few hours to cook.

Trevor Gibney:

You start all your podcasts with a breakfast recipe, and it's only fitting that you talked about how to prepare oat groats on this one. So, I appreciate that. That's very cool. Ian, before we get much further, I want to thank you for taking your time here. And so we are a Michigan-based podcast, and there's a lot of great cycling happening in Michigan. There's a lot of great gravel cycling happening in Michigan, and so we just started talking to people about that.

Trevor Gibney:

And then yeah, and especially with COVID, then we started to talk to pros and people that maybe had a really busy season that all of a sudden it wasn't as busy as they were planning on. And so I hate to bring this up so early because this is kind of the conversation that everyone is having right now, but how are you dealing with the COVID life? You brought that up a little bit. It threw a wrench into your whole Wahoo podcast, or maybe it gave you an opportunity.

Ian Boswell:

Yeah. Yeah, well, I guess, first I don't think I've ever actually been to Michigan but my friend Larry Warbasse. I'm sure you know of as a Michigan boy.

Trevor Gibney:

Yep.

Ian Boswell:

I actually do have Bearclaw Thunderhawk, which is-

Trevor Gibney:

You do?

Ian Boswell:

... a Michigan ... Yes, I do.

Trevor Gibney:

I didn't know that. You've got to put more Instagram photos of that Thunderhawk.

Ian Boswell:

Well, I'm-

Trevor Gibney:

Actually, I would love a Thunderhawk by the way that-

Ian Boswell:

Yeah, they are a sweet bike. We actually got it on my ... Well, I got the frames and got it built up and delivered on my wedding day last year. So, that was my first ride on it, my wedding day, so-

Trevor Gibney:

So, they are originally from Traverse City, where Larry is from, or at least where Larry grew up. And then I think Bearclaw moved to Marquette, which is in the upper peninsula. But, man, they make some sweet bikes for sure.

Ian Boswell:

They do. Yeah. Well, I think actually we kind of sidetracked from your initial question, but I think-

Trevor Gibney:

That's okay.

Ian Boswell:

... I was posting some pictures, was it last year? About the bike, and I think even [Las Baum 00:30:17] saw it. I think they sent him a bike for some of the beach racing, because you can put a huge tire on them. There's that for that.

Trevor Gibney:

I saw that. And then he-

Ian Boswell:

He's racing in the Netherlands.

Trevor Gibney:

Yeah.

Ian Boswell:

Yeah. But yeah, COVID question. I guess I'm going through such a big transition in 2020 myself. Leaving my former life and life in Europe as a professional road racer. Yeah, I've retired, I guess, officially at the end of January, and started a job in a position with Wahoo. That job and my role was taking on ... Well, because of COVID I'm taking on a lot more responsibility because we're not attending any events, which is part of what I was going to be doing.

Ian Boswell:

But it's been a huge shift, like I said, just personally going from living in Europe and just my full-time job was racing a bike to now still riding a bike, and I was planning on doing lot of the gravel events here in the States, but also balancing that, for the first time in my life with an actual job, which has been probably a bigger shift for me personally than experiencing lockdown era. But it's actually been really nice because I've actually, for the first time ever, been in one place for a long time.

Ian Boswell:

For the first time since I was a kid in high school, I've been thankfully stuck in Vermont at our house, so I'm actually getting to appreciate our lifestyle here and what we do have, and still being able to ride but develop my skills as an employee. It's been a steep learning curve. I can't hide that. All of a sudden you have responsibilities and meetings and Zoom calls and all that kind of stuff. It's like, "Oh, wow, this is way different than just riding your bike for five, six hours a day."

Ian Boswell:

But yeah, I mean, I was supposed to go to mid-south, and it was actually just a couple of days before the event that we decided not to go myself, and my colleagues at Wahoo. Yeah, that was kind of the only real event that maybe I had the possibility to race in 2020, and obviously it looks like the rest of the season has been pushed back to potentially next year, and who knows? Maybe even beyond that.

Trevor Gibney:

Yeah. You mentioned how despite, I mean, aside from COVID, this has been kind of a transition lately for you. I do want to talk about what you're doing now but can we set a little bit of context for our listeners and just for this conversation about just where you came from? Will you tell us a little bit about coming up through the American scene and then the World Tour? I have to be super specific about it, but I'll just like to know a little bit more about you as a road cyclist and a professional cyclist.

Ian Boswell:

Yeah. Yeah, so I grew up in Bend, Oregon. Both of my parents were avid endurance athletes. My dad did triathlon professionally and my mom, she run marathons and did some mountain bike racing. I guess growing up in a place like Bend it sounds like Michigan is somewhat similar in the sense that being involved in endurance sports, it's more common, I guess, than maybe some places in the US.

Ian Boswell:

I did play the mainstream America sports, basketball, football, all that, but just based off the community and my parents' experience with endurance sports, I drifted towards cycling, and I guess I did play basketball through high school. But then every springtime, I was eager to get on my bike and start racing. I just gradually rose up through the ranks in Oregon, and thankfully, at the time there was a pretty competitive junior crop of riders.

Ian Boswell:

Maybe a guy you may know, Jacob [Graffius 00:34:19] grew up in Oregon and we were the same age. We grew up battling each other, and I think just having that competitive and friendly rivalry with another junior every weekend definitely pushed me to another level. Eventually, I raced on Hot Tubes for my last year as a junior, and started racing with the national team over in Europe. I actually started off with mountain bike racing but quickly focused more on road cycling, especially in the Armstrong era there was definitely a lot of buzz around road cycling and the Tour de France and all that.

Ian Boswell:

Yeah, and just continually had the right results at the right time and moved up through the ranks. I raced on Bissell my first year, Bissell Pro Cycling, another Michigan company, right?

Trevor Gibney:

Yeah, I was going to say the same thing.

Ian Boswell:

Yeah. Yeah, so I was with Bissell Pro Cycling in what? 2010. And again had some good results and then raced with Livestrong for two years. Yeah, it just kind of, like I said, continually had the right results at the right time, and eventually moved up to Team Sky when I was, I guess, 21. Raced there for five years, and then left Sky end of 2017 to go to Katusha–Alpecin, because I wanted to ride the Tour de France, and that just became more and more difficult to crack that hierarchy at Team Sky. So, I went to Katusha, rode in the Tour in 2018 with them.

Ian Boswell:

And then in the spring of 2019 I had a hard crash, and a pretty severe concussion which is the string of multiple concussions over the course of my career. Just with that and some other health issues related to that put into question did I want to keep doing this? That was a long process from when I crashed until I decided that I wasn't going to pursue a road career. So, I decided to stop racing road bikes, and this gravel, I still love gravel ...

Ian Boswell:

I guess what I learned about myself during that time when I wasn't able to race was that I really loved riding my bike. I wanted to continue riding my bicycle, but in a way it challenged myself riding in a different way. For so long I've been focused on just about the performance side of it, and there are so much more to bike riding than just this high-end professional road cycling. I'm very much, in many ways, I feel like a novice again riding my bike and I'm learning how to do basic bike mechanics. It's like first time I set up tubeless tires this year, I'm like, "Oh, this is actually not that difficult."

Ian Boswell:

So, I've enjoyed the process of learning bike mechanics and also learning about just riding different roads and slowing down and enjoying riding my bike again with, I guess, the personal aspiration to still be somewhat competitive in these gravel races. But like I said, there is no races in 2020, so I might have to wait a little bit longer.

Trevor Gibney:

Yeah, I want to go back. I mean, you did a great job talking about your career and where you are now, but I don't want to gloss over the fact that you have done every single grand tour, correct? All three grand tours.

Ian Boswell:

Yep, I did one Tour, one Euro, and I think three-

Trevor Gibney:

Three Vueltas.

Ian Boswell:

And three Vueltas, yeah.

Trevor Gibney:

Yeah. That is pretty fantastic, I think.

Ian Boswell:

Yeah. Yeah, no, it really is like a dream come true. I guess when you're in it, it's just, I mean, everyone around is kind of doing the same thing. You're hanging out with other pro cyclists who're also racing grand tour. So, it seems normal. Now, it kind of be like to be one step removed, and still very much a fan, I look back I'm like, "Oh wow, I was in those races. That was pretty cool." I guess it's hindsight, you can appreciate things a little bit more.

Trevor Gibney:

So, kind of side question. I was wondering, how much of a fan of cycling you are, and just this weekend we had the Strade Bianche, kind of the return of cycling for 2020, pro cycling. Did you watch it? Are you interested in that? I mean, I'm sure there's people that are racing that you know. I mean, you talk about Larry Warbasse. Well, I know he rode in it, and probably a lot of other people you know rode. Did you watch it? Are you interested in that kind of thing?

Ian Boswell:

Yeah, no, I'm still a huge fan of cycling.

Trevor Gibney:

Good.

Ian Boswell:

And so every morning when I wake up ... I guess part of the reason for walking away was like it was very much on my terms, and I still have a very good and healthy and positive relationship with cycling, which I think some athletes retire from whatever sport they're in and you're kind of burned out on it. But I love cycling. Yeah, I still like ... Every morning when I wake up with a cup of coffee, and I'm checking all the different cycling websites and just seeing what's happening.

Ian Boswell:

I did not actually watch Strade Bianche. I mean, I wanted to, but just with the timing here on the East Coast in the US, it's kind of unfortunately that it's like right in the middle of the day when I'm like, "I actually want to ride my bike myself." I did catch up on some highlights and looking at results, talk to some people about-

Trevor Gibney:

I was doing the same thing.

Ian Boswell:

Yeah. Yeah.

Trevor Gibney:

I actually finished a ride, and I got in right at the ... There were like three case to go or something.

Ian Boswell:

Yeah. Yeah, I mean, that's actually one of the things I've found out about living on the East Coast now. It's like it's very different than growing up on the West Coast. It's perfect, because you wake up in the morning and the race is finishing like 9:00 AM, but on the East Coast, it's like everything is right in the middle of the day. The finish was at 11:00 AM. It's like, "What? That's kind of when I'm riding my bike usually." It was the same last year during the Tour. I was home in Vermont, but I wasn't watching that many stages just because I was out trying to ride myself.

Ian Boswell:

But yeah, still a huge fan, and like you said, I still speak to a lot of my friends in the Peloton, both just as friends but also some people for the podcast. It's still a sport that I really love and have so much admiration for all the people out there, friends that are still doing it, because it's an awesome life. Yeah, just today I got a message from a Canadian rider, Antoine Duchesne, who rides for Groupama–FDJ.

Ian Boswell:

He messaged me. He was like, "Man, I'm so jealous of your life. I want to quit racing and do that." I'm like, "It's going to be there when you stop. Being a professional cyclist is a pretty awesome lifestyle. Enjoy it as long as you can because it's chickens and gardens and groundhogs, because they'll be there when you're done."

Trevor Gibney:

Yeah, at the beginning of this whole COVID thing, I saw that Larry Warbasse came back to Michigan. He was here for a few months, I think. So, I reached out and we had a conversation, but he was saying that he even saw ... I think he was with you not too earlier before that. You were in, I don't know, in Girona, or?

Ian Boswell:

Yeah. No, we have in Nice.

Trevor Gibney:

In Nice. Okay.

Ian Boswell:

Yeah, I went over to Nice. I think it was end of February. That's where I was based for, I guess, eight years I was living in Nice. So, Larry and I got to know each other really well ... We raced together when we were younger as juniors and on the national team but we lived like a mile from each other in Nice for seven years. He was in Italy before that, and then moved to Nice. So, we've become really good friends both on and off the bike. So, I went over end of February, and he was away racing, actually.

Ian Boswell:

But I stayed in his apartment, and he was at the UAE Tour, and that's kind of when the first cases of COVID poked its head up. I'd seen news about it but it didn't really seem ... I won't say it doesn't seem relevant, but it just wasn't mainstream yet. Yep, and Larry came back from UAE. I was still at his house. This was still like he'd been tested and came back negative, but he'd flown back from this race where people were positive [inaudible 00:42:16] so much unknown, and I came back to the US maybe three or four days after Larry got back to Nice.

Ian Boswell:

So, we spent time together but it was just, like I said, in hindsight probably a stupid thing to do but we didn't really know much about and he had had a negative test. And so whatever, we're fine. But I definitely saw while we were in Europe Larry was supposed to leave to another race. We were sitting in his apartment and he was just getting text messages from his teammates and directors like, "Should we leave to the race or get on this flight? I'm going to the airport." It was this whole chaos of were these events going to happen or were they not going to happen? Ultimately, they didn't happen, but I came back to the US, and the same things here were still kind of really unknown. People were still heading to mid-south amidst this-

Trevor Gibney:

Right. Right.

Ian Boswell:

... kind of situation we didn't fully become aware of yet, but like I said, I just came back from Europe where races were being canceled. Italy was on full lockdown and people were trying to escape this ... Thinking about where they live before. They weren't allowed to leave their homes. So, I guess maybe I was an early adopter to realizing the direction that this was all going.

Trevor Gibney:

Yeah. Did you find it a little, I don't know if easier is the correct word? But I mean just the season before you were rehabbing from an injury, almost the entire season or half the season?

Ian Boswell:

Yeah. Yeah, I crashed in March and then didn't race again for the rest of the year, yeah.

Trevor Gibney:

So, we talked with ultra runner Hillary Allen, and she went through this whole ... She broke her back and she had this huge injury, and how the connection between going through an injury and then going through this whole societal injury of COVID. I don't know if that helped you set up, if it made COVID, this whole thing worse or if it made it a little easier to deal with because you've already been, not isolating yourself, but just rehabbing yourself? You know what I'm saying?

Ian Boswell:

Yeah, man, and I guess for myself it was, I guess, I appreciate the fact that I'm not ... There's so much unknown with so many pro riders this year, and there's rumors that teams maybe are going to fold. If you're in a contract year, if races don't happen, are you going to get a new contract? There's a lot of stress just around that side of racing at the moment. So, I'm glad that I didn't have to deal with all of that.

Ian Boswell:

Like I said, this is the first time I've been able to actually spend time at our house here. We've lived here since 2017, and I haven't really ... Other than winters and maybe an odd week in the summer, I haven't spent all that much time at our house in Vermont. So, it's been nice to actually be home and realize that, "Oh wow, most people don't actually live out of a suitcase for the majority of their life." Actually, I can make connections with things and little events in town, and obviously a lot of those have been canceled, but just actually being a part of the community has been something I've longed for and finally able to actually be a part of.

Trevor Gibney:

What brought you guys to Vermont in the first place?

Ian Boswell:

Yeah, so my wife she grew up in Vermont. After college, she moved out to Bend, and I was out in Bend visiting my family after Tour California in 2015, I think. Yeah, just coincidentally we met at a bar and stayed in touched. Yeah, I've always wanted some property and land to have a garden and some animals, and kind of a rural lifestyle, kind of like a homesteading lifestyle. That is very, I will say, common and very doable here in Vermont, because we do get a lot of rain, and the soil is ideal for growing stuff. Yeah, once I came out to visit her. I think 2016 I came out to visit in July. We pretty much started looking for houses right away. Yeah, it's a fantastic place to live.

Trevor Gibney:

What are the winters like?

Ian Boswell:

Long. Yeah, I mean that was, I guess, one of the other thing ... Last winter was the first winter that I spent full winter season here. So, probably not that much ... Not too different to the winters in Michigan. That's-

Trevor Gibney:

Well, that's kind of what I was getting at. Yeah.

Ian Boswell:

Yeah. I love winter, winter. When it's snowy and wintery and cold, I love that. Stoking the fire, splitting wood. I think the hardest seasons that people don't account for like these transition seasons, late October, November when there's no snow, it's too cold to do anything. It's muddy, it's stick season. That's perhaps ... Then I guess the spring is probably the hardest season, because it's just filthy. It's gray and the days are still short. In the winter, I can ride my fab bike or I go skiing or snowshoeing.

Ian Boswell:

But come that springtime it's like too dirty to ride of the roads having ... They still have snow on them. You're just kind of stuck, and you can ride inside but it comes a point where you're just like, "I just want to ride outside again." But yeah, I mean, it's a solid ... Yeah, it's more than six months of the year cold. Yeah, but summertimes are amazing. It's this time of the year when it's 75, 80 degrees and just perfect. You forget about all that.

Trevor Gibney:

I feel like there are a lot of similarities between Vermont and Michigan in that same sense of it's north, there's a lot of winter, there's not a ton of summer. Those transition periods, yeah, exactly. I think our gravel scene is pretty similar. We have a majority of gravel roads versus paved roads. Also, we're both basically Canada, right? I mean like-

Ian Boswell:

Yeah. Yeah. We were listening to ... My wife and I did a ride up north to the Canada border yesterday. The whole way home we were just listening to French Canadian radio. Yeah.

Trevor Gibney:

I think we're not quite French Canadian. I mean, we're a lot closer to Toronto and such but yeah, absolutely. Okay, so I do want to ... Let's not talk about your transition then from professional World Tour cycling into your role now. I know that as you were talking, I mean, it's kind of within that transition it is transitioning at the same time. It includes your podcast which is fantastic and then also gravel cycling which hasn't even happened.

Ian Boswell:

Yeah.

Trevor Gibney:

I guess there is a trend, and maybe trend isn't the correct word. An opportunity, maybe is a better word, that a few people like you, former pros are kind of dipping their toe into the gravel scene. I'm wondering what kind of opportunity you saw there and what you thought could be gained from being a part of the national gravel scene.

Ian Boswell:

Yeah, and I guess my situation very much differs from we you look at other pros who have moved to gravel, Ted King or Pete Stetina this year. Even Colin Strickland, those riders. I'm just mentioning them because they've transitioned from professional road to gravel. This is still the gravel racing and their sponsorships and performance, those are still very much their livelihood, and that's their job.

Ian Boswell:

Let's take Pete Stetina for example. We have the most similar or similarities. This is still a full-time job from here as you know. He's been able to kind of get rid of the team structure and pick up individual sponsors, and then based off the sponsorship value, whatever he's able to make a job out of this. For myself, it's very different in the sense that I started in January. I actually came on as a full-time there at Wahoo, and we can get into my job description in a second.

Ian Boswell:

But yeah, so with the caveat that I'm an employee of Wahoo but I'm also allowed the ability to participate in these events. I'll be at these events anyways because I'm part of the marketing tea. We have an expo or a booth there. I'm already there, so I might as well race. There's no expectation on me necessarily having to win all these races. Of course, I would like to be competitive because I like to test myself and push myself, but it's not necessarily ... My job is no longer to win bike races outside of just personally wanting to be competitive. I'm not a paid professional athlete anymore.

Trevor Gibney:

Do you find a bit of freedom in that in terms of maybe not in ... I mean, you have your day-to-day job but then when you show up to the line, does that help, or?

Ian Boswell:

Yeah, I have a whole laundry list of excuses now. Yeah, so I mean with Wahoo just so I can elaborate on that. I've taken on the role of athlete liaison. So, there are countless gravel cyclists, road cyclists, triathletes, professional road teams that we partner with or sponsor. A lot of those athletes I know, I guess, on the gravel fairly well. So, within Wahoo there is like this Wahoo Frontiers campaign, and then there was like ... If you saw the video that they launched about myself in was that January? And then Pete in February.

Trevor Gibney:

Those are fantastic by the way. Those are so well done, yeah. It told a great story.

Ian Boswell:

Yeah, thank you. The initial goal was to document all the Frontiers athletes. So, it's myself, Pete, Colin Strickland, Amity Rockwell, Heather Jackson, and Sarah Strum. We're not teammates by any means, but we are brought together through Wahoo. So, we had anticipated on documenting all their stories about the year at different races and just who they are off the bike. Also, what is their frontier? What lays ahead of them?

Ian Boswell:

Because a lot of these people, they are in a very transitional phase of their life. Myself and Pete coming from road to gravel. Colin, going last year from being a competitive gravel racer to winning DK. Same with Amity. And then you look at Heather Jackson who was US' best Ironman triathlete now dipping her toes into gravel. What does the future for her look like when she decides to no longer race triathlon? Yeah, because I know those athletes fair well, I communicate with them just as part of my daily job. But it was this spring, I think before even Old Man Winter. So, actually the one gravel race I did.

Trevor Gibney:

Yeah.

Ian Boswell:

But it seems like all these-

Trevor Gibney:

That's not a gravel race. I mean, come on.

Ian Boswell:

No, it was ... Yeah, even with sharp bike and-

Trevor Gibney:

At least not this year.

Ian Boswell:

No. But I was talking to Stetina, and I was like, "Man, you're training so much." He's like, "Yeah, but Ian you've got to be training too. This is your job." I was like, "No, this is no longer my job. I have a job. This is my free time if I could get out and sneak in a lunch ride." Wahoo is incredibly flexible with being a brand in the endurance space. No one is going to tell you you can't go for a lunch ride. They're very supportive of their employees staying active and healthy.

Trevor Gibney:

From the beginning, were you going to work remote or is that something because of COVID you're working remote? I'm just assuming you're working remote because I don't know where ... Where is Wahoo based?

Ian Boswell:

They are based down in Atlanta, Georgia. Yeah, I was always going to be remote. I did go down to Atlanta a couple of times in the fall, I guess early winter, and then again the spring before COVID. But yeah, so a few days prior to Old Men Winter, I was in Atlanta for some global sales meetings for like four days. I was like, "This is way harder than a training camp." Sitting at a desk, listening to presentations from the marketing to global marketing team for eight years a day, and then going to a company dinner. I was like, "Oh my gosh, this is exhausting." So, like I said, it's been a transition in many ways but I'm incredibly fortunate to have an awesome job at Wahoo and still be able to ride my bike and feel supported and riding, and some point racing.

Trevor Gibney:

Sure. I did catch your latest podcast, and you were talking with a couple of bikepackers.

Ian Boswell:

Yes.

Trevor Gibney:

You need to remind me of their names.

Ian Boswell:

Yes, it was Joe Cruz and Karen Young.

Trevor Gibney:

I thought you guys had a really incredible conversation about the makeup of an athlete and what drives you and what ... We've had similar conversations on this podcast about adventure versus competition. You have lots of experience in competition. Years of experience in competition. I mean, at the highest, highest level. I wonder your take on where you see adventure and competition and how they differ, or do they work together? Do they dance together a little bit or they're completely a separate idea?

Ian Boswell:

Yeah, I mean, that's a really good question. It's something that I still am I'm trying to figure out. My mindset, these [inaudible 00:56:53] pathways or just like my instinct is to push myself. So, like I said, especially this year there's no race. I could just go out and ride. I could stop and take a picture. I can take time at a general store and go grab an ice cream and just sit in the park and relax. But there's something in me that's still, I think just from so many years of racing of like, "I've got to go. Let's go and grab water and let's hit it." You know?

Trevor Gibney:

Yeah.

Ian Boswell:

That's why I wanted to speak to Joe Cruz and Karen Young. They actually stayed at our place. We have an A-frame out back, a cabin out back, and they stayed there. They rode. So, Joe Cruz designed the VTXL course that Ted King did. Ted did in like 20-something hours. They did it in four days. So, just the contrast between-

Trevor Gibney:

Was that through Vermont? Was-?

Ian Boswell:

Yep. Yeah, so Ted went from the Canadian border to the Massachusetts border. They went from the Massachusetts border north to Canada. Yeah, I think it's 320 miles.

Trevor Gibney:

Goodness. That's when he was doing his DIY DKXL or whatever?

Ian Boswell:

Yep. Yeah. So, it passed right by our house. Joe designed that course, and he said, "Hey, can we stay in the cabin?" They stayed here. They got her super late. I spoke with them, obviously when they were here, but it just seemed like it's such a different world for me in the sense that you left at 8:00 AM. They arrived in our house after dark, like 9:00 PM. They rode 70 miles. I was thinking, "Oh my gosh." So many times I'm more on a time restraint just, because work, I want to get back, I want to spend time with my wife or whatever it may be.

Ian Boswell:

I'm like, "Wow, they just spent all day riding." They didn't try to calculate the speed, but I'm like, "They were actually not riding all the time. They stop and have lunch somewhere. They jump in a brook or a river." And so I would love to at some point be able to slow down and do that. It's still very much something that I'm learning, except my instinct or the way that I ride is wanting to go somewhere fast on my bike. In my head I'm just always looking like, "I can I average 20 miles an hour," which speaking to someone like Joe, he has so much experience bikepacking.

Ian Boswell:

We kind of dug into that in our chat was that the bike is such a beautiful thing because you're travel at a speed that is everything is heightened. Even if you're going 20 miles an hour and you still smell things, you hear things. All your senses are still active. If you're on a motorcycle, maybe you see more than you'd be in a car but you're still moving too fast to absorb everything around you. You usually to get the same thing running but you're not going to run 70 miles in a day. I mean, some people do but not day in, day out.

Ian Boswell:

Yeah, so it was just something that it still fascinates me to get into this other ... Kind of going back to the beginning of our conversation feeling like such a rookie at bike riding again. Like, "Hey, let's just go for a 20-mile ride." A couple of weeks ago my wife and I left after work on a Monday night, rode 20 miles to a camp ground. Camped over night, and then rode back the next morning before work. A total of 40 miles, and I was like ... I wouldn't really call it a bike ride but for a lot of people that still was a bike ride, and it was a bikepacking little trip we went on. We stopped at a bridge and just ate some peas from the garden. I was like, "Wow, this is actually really nice." I'd never done that. I should slow down more often.

Trevor Gibney:

Yeah, I wonder though, and I'm wondering how you feel about this but when I think of adventure, I'm wondering if we're not doing it justice by just saying, "Let's slow down." Adventure doesn't have to be slower than competition.

Ian Boswell:

Yeah, that's true.

Trevor Gibney:

Maybe it's just that we make sure and appreciate the competition, or like, I don't know, competition is like you're competing against one another, but I think you can push yourself and still have an adventure, and maybe push yourself and still enjoy. Maybe that's the thing is making sure that you are enjoying what you're doing and not just making sure someone else is hurting, you know?

Ian Boswell:

Yeah, I know. I'd very much agree to that that everyone's definition of adventure may be different. For someone like Joe Cruz, that might be riding across South America over the course of two months. For me, maybe that's going and kind of do 100 miles in five hours. I think maybe adventure is more of a mindset than an actual physical act of, like I said, riding slower or try to go somewhere. It's like if you're in this sense of you're trying to almost explore an area but also explore yourself, like you're adventuring and you're putting yourself in this vulnerable spot. Maybe that's the best way to define it is like you're adventuring when you're vulnerable.

Ian Boswell:

That can be you're bikepacking through the woods, and you're at the middle of nowhere and everything goes wrong. But that could also be you go for a bike ride from your house and getting close to bonking or you're going to make it to the gas station before you're out of food and water. It's like that's still an adventure. I think speaking to you and your audience, a lot of people's sense of adventure is probably a lot higher than a lot of other people in the world around us, because we're constantly being surrounded by people who're doing crazy things, especially with social media now.

Ian Boswell:

It's like everyone is doing something cool all the time, but it's a lot of people ... I think it's taking a step out of your comfort zone and pushing yourself, whether that's distance or days or intensity that really gives you that sense of adventure.

Trevor Gibney:

Something that I've been observing in the last few years in terms of normal people like myself as a bike rider and then a professional cyclist, I see it in the gravel scene, I see it happening in the United States where the divide between the amateur and professional is coming closer and closer together a little bit. I see in gravel you can line up on the same line with a professional. It's kind of like an old school marathon. Everyone goes out together, a word that people use, the democratization of cycling.

Trevor Gibney:

I see what you're doing, what Ted is doing, what Colin is doing, and Pete. You are all a part of that a little bit by closing this divide of amateur and professional. I don't know if you ... You have your role at Wahoo, you have your professional role, do you see yourself in the cycling realm as having a role just to kind of as a cyclist promoting healthy and positive cycling? Do you see yourself in that role or am I just putting that on you?

Ian Boswell:

No, definitely. That's one thing that I've struggled with moving to Vermont is I moved here as a professional athlete. I was on Team Sky. We have a strong cycling community but there's not a ton of kind of elite road racers. Maybe there's not a ton of KAT1 racers who I moved here and like, "Hey, let's call Ian and ride with him." A lot of people were very intimidated to ride with me. Even just this last weekend we rode with a group of people. They had frame bags, and they brought pie on the ride and pizza in their pocket.

Trevor Gibney:

Pocket pizza.

Ian Boswell:

Yeah. So, we're connected to them through some other friends. They were like, "Hey, we're going to go up to Peacham and ride with Ian and Gretchen." We got talking on the ride, and they were like, "We were so worried about coming up here that you guys were just going to leave us behind, and we're not going to know where to go. You're not going to talk to us." I think maybe my role would be to realize that I just want to fit in. I just want to be at these events and just riding with people.

Ian Boswell:

Maybe there's events when I'm riding at the front and trying to compete for the win, but I was at ... What was it? Old ... Not Old Man Winter. We talked about that. The Gravel Mob, last year in Southern California. I went out with Canyon and Wahoo. Yeah, so it's a race but it's also a ride. It's a gravel event, and I went hard for the first 20 minutes and I flattered. I was like, "Awesome, I don't have to ride hard anymore." So, I spent the next four hours just riding with people. That's when I first met Amity, and spoke with so many other people. I met a guy who went to college with my dad. I'm like, "This is so cool."

Ian Boswell:

I was still in a pro kit but I didn't feel like a pro athlete. I guess my message to people will be like, "Don't be afraid to approach people =coming from a higher level of riding." Because I think that's one of the coolest things about bikes is it strips away everything else about you. Everyone is vulnerable and exposed when they're on the bike. Yeah, maybe my place is to just be just a guy out there who wants to check out with people, because I love having conversations. You probably know, the best conversations you often times have are on a bike ride when you're three or four hours in.

Trevor Gibney:

I feel like there's an opportunity right now, not so much gravel scene but we find post-COVID how huge recreational cycling is becoming. And then you also spoke a little earlier about the stress that it [inaudible 01:07:08] as a professional cyclist. I don't know, I feel like there still is a little bit of a divide or a difference between this boom that we're seeing now post-COVID or in-COVID, I guess, of recreational cycling, and the business of cycling, I think it was like the biggest month or the biggest week in the month. I don't know, but then also professional still need to scrap and to grind. I don't know where those two things meet, and I don't know if there is an answer to this, but-

Ian Boswell:

Yeah. Well, I mean, I will say that, and I saw this even just in the seven years that I was racing at the World Tour is, in many ways, the divide is almost becoming greater. When I first when to Team Sky in 2013, there were some older pros in the team, Benny [Izle 01:08:14], Gabriel Rush. These riders who'd been in the World Tour a long time. They grew up in this era of professional road cycling where you trained hard but you rode your bike, and there was a very much a community feel to it.

Ian Boswell:

You do coffee stops, and maybe you're doing six hours, but you're riding in a group. Everyone does their intervals by themselves but we reground at the top of the climb and ride together. I see the younger generation now, and because of parameters and the increased knowledge of training and physiology, people have become very individual athletes. Living in Nice, I was kind of straddling these two generations where I would ride with the older guys, Richie Porte or Froome, or Geraint Thomas or Joe [Bear 01:09:03].

Ian Boswell:

We would ride together the whole time. We'd stop, do a coffee shop stop, get a sandwich or something. We all did the work we needed, but we still had specific training to do. I see the younger generation, and you'll invite them like, "Hey, we're doing this ride and all these big athletes are going to be there." They'll be like, "Sorry, I can't come. I have my own training to do." It's like, "Wait, what?" If you're a basketball player, and like, "Hey, LeBron James has invited us to go shoot hoops," you're going to say, "Oh no, I'm going to practice free throws by myself."

Ian Boswell:

That doesn't happen, but because of the culture of cycling now, you see all these young riders who're performing really well because they're focused on just the performance side. So, I think finding that balance as a pro athlete is becoming more difficult. Maybe that's part of the reason why you see the divide between, say, I guess amateur gravel riders and professional becoming closer because there are a lot of people that really are working hard now and training hard to get ready for these events.

Trevor Gibney:

Do you think if you were going through the same thing in the '90s, would you be racing mountain bikes?

Ian Boswell:

That's a good question. Possibly.

Trevor Gibney:

Really?

Ian Boswell:

Yeah, man. I was only born in '91, so I don't know what the whole mountain bike culture was like, but I think a lot of people in my situation that we still riding our bikes and gravel racing, and riding is still very much a way for us to continue our passion without all the stress of being a European professional cyclist. But would I be racing mountain bikes? I mean, probably. I'd definitely be riding mountain bikes. Unfortunately, I don't even have a mountain bike at the moment, but we live close to the Kingdom Trails, but-

Trevor Gibney:

I guess I asked the question because it seems like gravel cycling is the opportunity now, but 20 years ago that wasn't the opportunity. Maybe the opportunity was racing mountain bikes. So, post World Tour, would you just take what the opportunity is so you can ride your bike?

Ian Boswell:

Yeah, I mean probably. I mean, I think you've seen other athletes transition to triathlon. Yeah, I guess Cam Wurf did that, and now he's back racing, but Andrew Talansky did the same thing. He went from World Tour to triathlon, because I think there is something, like I said, personally, it takes a while to get rid of that adrenalin junkie kind of buzz of training hard and coming back completely trashed and like, "Oh, man." The last hour of the ride you're just thinking like, "What's in the refrigerator?" It gets addicting. We all love that. We all know what that feels like. Yeah, so I'd definitely, whether it'd been mountain-biking or triathlon or something, I probably would've definitely dabbled in some type of endurance sport that my transition away from road cycling would've catered towards.

Trevor Gibney:

I'm a little interested in your experience now as a podcaster and as having these great conversations that I've been listening to with all sorts of different athletes. How have you enjoyed that as maybe a different arena of your life and of your career I guess?

Ian Boswell:

Yeah, I mean, I'm still very much learning. Yeah, and it really depends on who I am speaking with. There are athletes and people that maybe I don't expect to have a easy conversation with. I guess first off I'd prefer to have all these conversations in-person-

Trevor Gibney:

Absolutely. 100%.

Ian Boswell:

... but due to COVID we're not doing any of them in person. But yeah, I mean, I spoke to Sarah Sturm I'd never spoken to her before and spoke to her. This must've been back in March or something. We spoke for an hour without really any sort of ... I knew who she was, and did some research but the conversation just evolved, and we just wound up speaking for an hour. It was like, "Oh wow, that was an awesome conversation." Same with, I did one with [Uri 01:13:33] Oswald back in maybe April or May. Same thing, we just hit it off and it was just an awesome conversation. So, I really enjoy those. The beauty of not doing a podcast live and not in-person is that you can edit and cut things if it doesn't work.

Trevor Gibney:

100%.

Ian Boswell:

Yeah, but it's something I'm still very much learning, trying to make sure that the conversation is engaging, and like you said, I guess similar to your podcast, I'm speaking to athletes. I know professional road cycling extremely well, I've had triathletes on and mountain bikers, people from different arenas, race promoters. So, it kind of challenged to try to learn something before I speak to these people, because I don't always know what I'm talking about.

Ian Boswell:

A couple episodes ago I thought that Alex Stieda was American. It turns out he's Canadian. I was like, "Oh, that's such a ..." I left it in the podcast just to show my ignorance, but I think I don't mind being vulnerable and showing that I don't know everything and I make mistakes just like everyone.

Trevor Gibney:

I guess going back to the amateur, to the professional, I think things like that are very important. The way that you can put out a weekly podcast and to speak to different athletes, different professionals or different people in the profession. And then people like myself can consume that and listen to it, and kind of feel a part of it. So, whether you, Ian, are lining up and winning a gravel race or whether you are communicating to us through a podcast or just through a YouTube video or through whatever, I think that is what you're giving to the cycling culture is just a way for, I don't know, the weekend warrior to become motivated and inspired to do more with their cycling and their life.

Ian Boswell:

Yeah, I mean, that's the thing that I've really learned over the last few months. It's like an appreciation for these athletes that do have a full-time job and have kids. My wife and I we have chickens and we're in the process of getting a puppy, but to see these athletes who have a full-time job, they have multiple kids and they're still kicking butt at these races. There's a guy up here, he lives over in New Hampshire actually but I ride with him once in a while named Mike Barton. He's got to be in his mid-forties. He has twin daughters that are like 11. I think he was 12th at DK last year. I'm like, "Oh, my God."

Trevor Gibney:

Holly cow.

Ian Boswell:

That is so inspiring that he is able to do that. Every time I ride with him, he's just crushing it. He just smashes himself, and it's just like, "Wow." I thought it's impressive that Colin [inaudible 01:16:33] that's his full-time job is just training. This guy had so many other things going on. That's one thing that it's so interesting about the podcasting is I've spoken to a lot of big name athletes but it's almost the stories of people like him that inspire me and intrigue me more.

Ian Boswell:

I'm like, "How do you do this?" Because I'm very much learning how to balance training and work and life responsibilities, and I see someone like him, I'm like, "He's doing it." That is so cool for me to see. I think that's one of the awesome things with gravel racing and racing in the US at the moment is you have so many people like that who are able to find this balance in life and still just be awesome at everything they're doing. For me, that's almost more ... I admire someone like that, almost more so than the pro athletes winning, because I'm like, "They're a complete human doing everything."

Trevor Gibney:

Yeah. Yeah, that's amazing. I've got a couple more things before we wrap up. Again, thank you so much. This has been great. You mentioned you haven't been to Michigan, and I feel like we might need to remedy that pretty soon, but there are some fantastic races in Michigan and I just want to ... This is not a question. This is just me promoting Michigan, but I mean I'm sure mountain biking, you've heard of Iceman, of course?

Ian Boswell:

I have, yes. Goodness, who won it last year? [crosstalk 01:18:04].

Trevor Gibney:

Alexey Vermeulen.

Ian Boswell:

Alexey, yes, he's messaged me a couple of times to come out and do it. Yeah.

Trevor Gibney:

You have to. I mean, listen, this year is just probably not. The event is just something else, and so just to experience it and I think you would really dig it. I feel like you would feel right at home. I feel like Vermont and Michigan, you'll just feel at home I think. But then there is an early spring gravel race but now it's moved because of COVID but it's usually in April. It's the Barry-Roubaix, and that is-

Ian Boswell:

I have heard of that.

Trevor Gibney:

... an incredible gravel race. I think, in my opinion, if you were going to experience any of the races in Michigan, Barry-Roubaix, Iceman, would be a couple of them. There are some in the UP, Marji Gesick is one that people talk about a lot, but anyways, I encourage you to maybe in the future come out to Michigan and check out some of these races.

Ian Boswell:

Yeah, no, I would love to. That's one thing, I guess, that I've realized this year as my calendar and schedule for this year was definitely targeting the very well-known American gravel races, Belgian Waffle and Dirty Kanza, SBT. But the more I realize that there are so many events, and I would love to go to ... I know Barry-Roubaix is a huge event, Iceman is a huge event, but to go to some of these small events of 150 people, that's ... Because it's such a different experience than going to something like DK where, they're just big. Big events. Yeah, and I know I did just say DK. I'm still not sure what to reference when it comes to that event.

Trevor Gibney:

I mean, yeah, we've talked about the same thing. I mean you said DK, so that's I guess, I don't know, they haven't really dealt with that, I guess, but-

Ian Boswell:

Yeah, that 200-mile race in Kansas.

Trevor Gibney:

That 200-mile race in Kansas. You know, honestly at least locally I'm seeing that the smaller grassroots races can figure out a way to deal with some of the COVID protocol more than these giant races. And so there are a couple races happening because they are 100 people or 200 people, and they can go in waves and they can figure that out. But when you're talking about like ... Barry-Roubaix is like 5,000 people, and Iceman is probably, again, thousands of people that are meeting. That's a little more difficult to figure out, so this might be the next few months just the time for the grassroots race to ... I mean, "race" in quotes I guess, but at least some of these events.

Trevor Gibney:

That's all to be seen. We're not really sure about that. The most important thing, and we can close with this is you mentioned if you're training and you're right at the end and you're thinking about what's in the fridge, what is in the fridge for you post hard training ride?

Ian Boswell:

It depends what day of the week is. My brother was out here in April, and we built this log cabin lean-to. Needless to say, it took a lot of beer to finish that thing. I think a lot of people maybe drink more during the early stages of lockdown. So, once he left, I decided that I was going to not drink outside of the weekends. So, if it's a Friday, Saturday or Sunday, I'm looking forward to a good beer when I get home, first thing. If I get home on a weekday, I mean if there's leftovers, but I have a real craving for Cheerios with yogurt, maple syrup and honey. It sounds kind of ... Yeah.

Trevor Gibney:

Wait, no milk at all? Just-

Ian Boswell:

Just yogurt.

Trevor Gibney:

... the yogurt does-

Ian Boswell:

Wait, what did I say? Yeah. I think I said-

Trevor Gibney:

Yeah, the yogurt does the job?

Ian Boswell:

Sorry, not honey. Yeah, so yogurt, Cheerios, peanut butter and maple syrup. Strange but it's so easy, it's delicious, and I can eat far too many bowls a day when I come from a ride.

Trevor Gibney:

Going back to the beer, what's beer are you grabbing on a weekend?

Ian Boswell:

When I first moved to Vermont, I was drinking a lot of Double IPAs, which were delicious, but I quickly realized that-

Trevor Gibney:

You can't drink too many.

Ian Boswell:

No, when you wake up in the morning you have this cottonmouth, and you're like, "Oh my gosh, I feel terrible." There's a beer, my favorite beer at the moment, there is an IPA from a brewery. I think it's Upper Pass. I think it's called Drops. It's a beer-

Gretchen Boswell:

It's First Drop.

Ian Boswell:

First Drop, my wife just said it.

Trevor Gibney:

First Drop.

Ian Boswell:

It's like 6%. You can actually drink a few of them, and they're pretty darn good and refreshing after a long hard ride.

Trevor Gibney:

Perfect.

Ian Boswell:

I guess I'd also add maple ... If I'm on a bike ride and I can finish at a maple creemee stand, that's, I guess, the ultimate.

Trevor Gibney:

That's like your thing, right?

Ian Boswell:

Ultimate.

Trevor Gibney:

The maple creemees?

Ian Boswell:

Yeah, I rode 85 miles to get one on Sunday. But yeah, it's worth it, and I think it's probably similar to where you are at Michigan. It's like things are so seasonal here. You only can get them for a couple of months in the summer and then they're all closed up. So, it's I've got to get them while I can.

Trevor Gibney:

Well, you have to explain to us what it is, exactly what a maple creemee is.

Ian Boswell:

Yeah, it sounds so much more interesting than it is. Well, it's a soft serve ice cream but rather than most often you get one that it's vanilla or chocolate or twist, so it's just sweetened with maple syrup instead of vanilla and sugar or chocolate and sugar. Yeah, the word creemee, I don't know the full origins of it but it's somehow very unique to Vermont. If I cross the border and go to New Hampshire, it's just called soft serve but in the state of Vermont, it's-

Trevor Gibney:

It's a creemee.

Ian Boswell:

... creemee.

Trevor Gibney:

Yeah.

Ian Boswell:

Yes, it's spelt C-R-E-E-M-E-E, which is kind of a lot of Es in there. But yeah, and I mean there are some fantastic places. I mean, also cool to, I guess, adventure and ride to new creemee stands. I'd always recommend getting into waffle cone, you get way more bang for your buck. If they have maple sugar, maple candy they crush and sprinkle on top then all the better.

Trevor Gibney:

Awesome. I have to visit Vermont just for maple creemee.

Ian Boswell:

Anytime.

Trevor Gibney:

Thank you so much. This is great. I appreciate the hour you gave us and chatting about all this stuff. This is great. Thank you so much.

Ian Boswell:

Yeah. No, thank you.

Trevor Gibney:

The Dirty Chain Podcast is a Michigan Midpack Media production in partnership with KOM Cycling, the source for your bike accessories and necessities.

Sheldon Little:

Connect with us on Instagram and Facebook at Dirty Chain Podcast, email dirtychainpodcast@gmail.com or call our hotline at 616-522-2641.

Trevor Gibney:

If you're enjoying our podcast, please leave us a rating and review on whatever platform you use to listen.

Sheldon Little:

Audio editing and original music by Trevor Gibney. He's also been handling the social media, graphic design, and currently bad decisions.

Trevor Gibney:

Thank you to Ian Boswell for taking the time and being on our podcast. As always, keep your chain clean-

Sheldon Little:

But get your chain dirty.

Trevor Gibney:

We will see you in the Midpack. (singing).